Discussion:
[ITK-users] Big tiff file
Gib Bogle
2017-10-21 04:08:19 UTC
Permalink
Hi,


I am joining a stack of 2D tiffs into a 3D tiff, and have run into a problem with big files. When the uncompressed size of the 3D file is more than 2GB I get an error when I try to view it with Irfanview. At first I thought maybe I needed to upgrade from ITK4.8.0, but after installing and using ITK4.12.2 I see that I have the same issue. Irfanview says:

"Invalid or unsupported TIF file"

I now suspect that the problem is not ITK-related, rather it is a limitation of Irfanview.

I have two questions:


Is there a limit on the allowed size of a tiff file?

Is there another program (preferably free) that can open for viewing tiff files bigger than 2GB?


It is useful but not essential for me to be able to view these big 3D files. I will use ITK functions to process the 3D files, and I'm assuming that any file that ITK can create it can also read.


Thanks

Gib
Dženan Zukić
2017-10-21 15:40:08 UTC
Permalink
Hi Gib,

TIFF is limited to 4GiB <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TIFF#BigTIFF>.
Unless you must use TIFF, better switch to MetaImage or NRRD.

Regards,
DÅŸenan

On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 12:08 AM, Gib Bogle <***@auckland.ac.nz> wrote:

> Hi,
>
>
> I am joining a stack of 2D tiffs into a 3D tiff, and have run into a
> problem with big files. When the uncompressed size of the 3D file is more
> than 2GB I get an error when I try to view it with Irfanview. At first I
> thought maybe I needed to upgrade from ITK4.8.0, but after installing and
> using ITK4.12.2 I see that I have the same issue. Irfanview says:
>
> "Invalid or unsupported TIF file"
>
> I now suspect that the problem is not ITK-related, rather it is a
> limitation of Irfanview.
>
> I have two questions:
>
>
> Is there a limit on the allowed size of a tiff file?
>
> Is there another program (preferably free) that can open for viewing tiff
> files bigger than 2GB?
>
>
> It is useful but not essential for me to be able to view these big 3D
> files. I will use ITK functions to process the 3D files, and I'm assuming
> that any file that ITK can create it can also read.
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Gib
>
> The ITK community is transitioning from this mailing list to
> discourse.itk.org. Please join us there!
> ________________________________
> Powered by www.kitware.com
>
> Visit other Kitware open-source projects at
> http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html
>
> Kitware offers ITK Training Courses, for more information visit:
> http://www.kitware.com/products/protraining.php
>
> Please keep messages on-topic and check the ITK FAQ at:
> http://www.itk.org/Wiki/ITK_FAQ
>
> Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://public.kitware.com/mailman/listinfo/insight-users
>
>
Matt McCormick
2017-10-21 15:48:17 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

Since ITKv4, support for "BigTiff" was added, so ITK can support TIFF
files larger than 4GB.

One possible limitation may be the filesystem -- avoid FAT32 formatted
filesystem that will run into size limits.

The file could be viewed with a number of ITK-supported viewers, e.g.

- 3D-Slicer: https://www.slicer.org/
- ITK-SNAP: http://www.itksnap.org/
- Tomviz: http://www.tomviz.org/

HTH,
Matt

On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Dženan Zukić <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Gib,
>
> TIFF is limited to 4GiB. Unless you must use TIFF, better switch to
> MetaImage or NRRD.
>
> Regards,
> Dženan
>
> On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 12:08 AM, Gib Bogle <***@auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>> I am joining a stack of 2D tiffs into a 3D tiff, and have run into a
>> problem with big files. When the uncompressed size of the 3D file is more
>> than 2GB I get an error when I try to view it with Irfanview. At first I
>> thought maybe I needed to upgrade from ITK4.8.0, but after installing and
>> using ITK4.12.2 I see that I have the same issue. Irfanview says:
>>
>> "Invalid or unsupported TIF file"
>>
>> I now suspect that the problem is not ITK-related, rather it is a
>> limitation of Irfanview.
>>
>> I have two questions:
>>
>>
>> Is there a limit on the allowed size of a tiff file?
>>
>> Is there another program (preferably free) that can open for viewing tiff
>> files bigger than 2GB?
>>
>>
>> It is useful but not essential for me to be able to view these big 3D
>> files. I will use ITK functions to process the 3D files, and I'm assuming
>> that any file that ITK can create it can also read.
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Gib
>>
>>
>> The ITK community is transitioning from this mailing list to
>> discourse.itk.org. Please join us there!
>> ________________________________
>> Powered by www.kitware.com
>>
>> Visit other Kitware open-source projects at
>> http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html
>>
>> Kitware offers ITK Training Courses, for more information visit:
>> http://www.kitware.com/products/protraining.php
>>
>> Please keep messages on-topic and check the ITK FAQ at:
>> http://www.itk.org/Wiki/ITK_FAQ
>>
>> Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:
>> http://public.kitware.com/mailman/listinfo/insight-users
>>
>
>
> The ITK community is transitioning from this mailing list to
> discourse.itk.org. Please join us there!
> ________________________________
> Powered by www.kitware.com
>
> Visit other Kitware open-source projects at
> http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html
>
> Kitware offers ITK Training Courses, for more information visit:
> http://www.kitware.com/products/protraining.php
>
> Please keep messages on-topic and check the ITK FAQ at:
> http://www.itk.org/Wiki/ITK_FAQ
>
> Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://public.kitware.com/mailman/listinfo/insight-users
>
The ITK community is transitioning from this mailing list to discourse.itk.org. Please join us there!
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Gib Bogle
2017-10-21 18:56:47 UTC
Permalink
Thanks Matt. I'm still a bit confused. When I use my ITK code to create a TIFF file, is it always in BifTiff format, or is the BigTiff option only invoked when the file exceeds a certain size? I ask because Irfanview is happy with files that are less than 2GB, and it seems that Irfanview doesn't understand BigTiff. Is there a way to ask programmatically if the file to be created will use BigTiff?

Cheers, Gib
________________________________________
From: Matt McCormick <***@kitware.com>
Sent: Sunday, 22 October 2017 4:48 a.m.
To: Dženan Zukić
Cc: Gib Bogle; Insight-users
Subject: Re: [ITK-users] Big tiff file

Hi,

Since ITKv4, support for "BigTiff" was added, so ITK can support TIFF
files larger than 4GB.

One possible limitation may be the filesystem -- avoid FAT32 formatted
filesystem that will run into size limits.

The file could be viewed with a number of ITK-supported viewers, e.g.

- 3D-Slicer: https://www.slicer.org/
- ITK-SNAP: http://www.itksnap.org/
- Tomviz: http://www.tomviz.org/

HTH,
Matt

On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Dženan Zukić <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Gib,
>
> TIFF is limited to 4GiB. Unless you must use TIFF, better switch to
> MetaImage or NRRD.
>
> Regards,
> Dženan
>
> On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 12:08 AM, Gib Bogle <***@auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>> I am joining a stack of 2D tiffs into a 3D tiff, and have run into a
>> problem with big files. When the uncompressed size of the 3D file is more
>> than 2GB I get an error when I try to view it with Irfanview. At first I
>> thought maybe I needed to upgrade from ITK4.8.0, but after installing and
>> using ITK4.12.2 I see that I have the same issue. Irfanview says:
>>
>> "Invalid or unsupported TIF file"
>>
>> I now suspect that the problem is not ITK-related, rather it is a
>> limitation of Irfanview.
>>
>> I have two questions:
>>
>>
>> Is there a limit on the allowed size of a tiff file?
>>
>> Is there another program (preferably free) that can open for viewing tiff
>> files bigger than 2GB?
>>
>>
>> It is useful but not essential for me to be able to view these big 3D
>> files. I will use ITK functions to process the 3D files, and I'm assuming
>> that any file that ITK can create it can also read.
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Gib
>>
>>
>> The ITK community is transitioning from this mailing list to
>> discourse.itk.org. Please join us there!
>> ________________________________
>> Powered by www.kitware.com
>>
>> Visit other Kitware open-source projects at
>> http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html
>>
>> Kitware offers ITK Training Courses, for more information visit:
>> http://www.kitware.com/products/protraining.php
>>
>> Please keep messages on-topic and check the ITK FAQ at:
>> http://www.itk.org/Wiki/ITK_FAQ
>>
>> Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:
>> http://public.kitware.com/mailman/listinfo/insight-users
>>
>
>
> The ITK community is transitioning from this mailing list to
> discourse.itk.org. Please join us there!
> ________________________________
> Powered by www.kitware.com
>
> Visit other Kitware open-source projects at
> http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html
>
> Kitware offers ITK Training Courses, for more information visit:
> http://www.kitware.com/products/protraining.php
>
> Please keep messages on-topic and check the ITK FAQ at:
> http://www.itk.org/Wiki/ITK_FAQ
>
> Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://public.kitware.com/mailman/listinfo/insight-users
>
The ITK community is transitioning from this mailing list to discourse.itk.org. Please join us there!
________________________________
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Gib Bogle
2017-10-21 21:19:21 UTC
Permalink
I just installed ITK-SNAP. Unfortunately it doesn't even recognise the format of an ITK-created TIFF file smaller than 2GB :(. This is a file that Irfanview can read (of course, only displaying it slice-by-slice.) Maybe ITK-SNAP doesn't like 3D TIFFs.
...
The problem is more fundamental, it appears. ITK-SNAP can't recognise the format of one of my 2D TIFFs either. In fact, TIFF does not appear in the list of supported file formats.
Back to the drawing board.
________________________________________
From: Matt McCormick <***@kitware.com>
Sent: Sunday, 22 October 2017 4:48 a.m.
To: Dženan Zukić
Cc: Gib Bogle; Insight-users
Subject: Re: [ITK-users] Big tiff file

Hi,

Since ITKv4, support for "BigTiff" was added, so ITK can support TIFF
files larger than 4GB.

One possible limitation may be the filesystem -- avoid FAT32 formatted
filesystem that will run into size limits.

The file could be viewed with a number of ITK-supported viewers, e.g.

- 3D-Slicer: https://www.slicer.org/
- ITK-SNAP: http://www.itksnap.org/
- Tomviz: http://www.tomviz.org/

HTH,
Matt

On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Dženan Zukić <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Gib,
>
> TIFF is limited to 4GiB. Unless you must use TIFF, better switch to
> MetaImage or NRRD.
>
> Regards,
> Dženan
>
> On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 12:08 AM, Gib Bogle <***@auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>> I am joining a stack of 2D tiffs into a 3D tiff, and have run into a
>> problem with big files. When the uncompressed size of the 3D file is more
>> than 2GB I get an error when I try to view it with Irfanview. At first I
>> thought maybe I needed to upgrade from ITK4.8.0, but after installing and
>> using ITK4.12.2 I see that I have the same issue. Irfanview says:
>>
>> "Invalid or unsupported TIF file"
>>
>> I now suspect that the problem is not ITK-related, rather it is a
>> limitation of Irfanview.
>>
>> I have two questions:
>>
>>
>> Is there a limit on the allowed size of a tiff file?
>>
>> Is there another program (preferably free) that can open for viewing tiff
>> files bigger than 2GB?
>>
>>
>> It is useful but not essential for me to be able to view these big 3D
>> files. I will use ITK functions to process the 3D files, and I'm assuming
>> that any file that ITK can create it can also read.
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Gib
>>
>>
>> The ITK community is transitioning from this mailing list to
>> discourse.itk.org. Please join us there!
>> ________________________________
>> Powered by www.kitware.com
>>
>> Visit other Kitware open-source projects at
>> http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html
>>
>> Kitware offers ITK Training Courses, for more information visit:
>> http://www.kitware.com/products/protraining.php
>>
>> Please keep messages on-topic and check the ITK FAQ at:
>> http://www.itk.org/Wiki/ITK_FAQ
>>
>> Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:
>> http://public.kitware.com/mailman/listinfo/insight-users
>>
>
>
> The ITK community is transitioning from this mailing list to
> discourse.itk.org. Please join us there!
> ________________________________
> Powered by www.kitware.com
>
> Visit other Kitware open-source projects at
> http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html
>
> Kitware offers ITK Training Courses, for more information visit:
> http://www.kitware.com/products/protraining.php
>
> Please keep messages on-topic and check the ITK FAQ at:
> http://www.itk.org/Wiki/ITK_FAQ
>
> Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://public.kitware.com/mailman/listinfo/insight-users
>
The ITK community is transitioning from this mailing list to discourse.itk.org. Please join us there!
________________________________
Powered by www.kitware.com

Visit other Kitware open-source projects at
http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html

Kitware offers ITK Training Courses, for more information visit:
http://www.kitware.com/products/protraining.php

Please keep messages on-topic and check the ITK FAQ at:
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Gib Bogle
2017-10-22 00:39:37 UTC
Permalink
I've managed to find the answer to one of my questions, by looking at the file header values. A TIFF file less than 2GB has these 4 header bytes:
49 49 2A 00
and over 2GB (BigTIFF) has
49 49 2B 00
ITK handles this automatically.

I can view the big TIFFs with Fiji (ImageJ), so this is not a bad option for displaying the slices. What I like about Irfanview is that it's very light-weight. ImageJ loads the whole file into memory, which can take some time, while Irfanview loads one slice at a time.

I am not keen about Slicer - it is a real heavy-weight - and Tomviz is very specialised, designed for viewing tomography data, i.e. images in a tilt series.
________________________________________
From: Matt McCormick <***@kitware.com>
Sent: Sunday, 22 October 2017 4:48 a.m.
To: Dženan Zukić
Cc: Gib Bogle; Insight-users
Subject: Re: [ITK-users] Big tiff file

Hi,

Since ITKv4, support for "BigTiff" was added, so ITK can support TIFF
files larger than 4GB.

One possible limitation may be the filesystem -- avoid FAT32 formatted
filesystem that will run into size limits.

The file could be viewed with a number of ITK-supported viewers, e.g.

- 3D-Slicer: https://www.slicer.org/
- ITK-SNAP: http://www.itksnap.org/
- Tomviz: http://www.tomviz.org/

HTH,
Matt

On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Dženan Zukić <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Gib,
>
> TIFF is limited to 4GiB. Unless you must use TIFF, better switch to
> MetaImage or NRRD.
>
> Regards,
> Dženan
>
> On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 12:08 AM, Gib Bogle <***@auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>> I am joining a stack of 2D tiffs into a 3D tiff, and have run into a
>> problem with big files. When the uncompressed size of the 3D file is more
>> than 2GB I get an error when I try to view it with Irfanview. At first I
>> thought maybe I needed to upgrade from ITK4.8.0, but after installing and
>> using ITK4.12.2 I see that I have the same issue. Irfanview says:
>>
>> "Invalid or unsupported TIF file"
>>
>> I now suspect that the problem is not ITK-related, rather it is a
>> limitation of Irfanview.
>>
>> I have two questions:
>>
>>
>> Is there a limit on the allowed size of a tiff file?
>>
>> Is there another program (preferably free) that can open for viewing tiff
>> files bigger than 2GB?
>>
>>
>> It is useful but not essential for me to be able to view these big 3D
>> files. I will use ITK functions to process the 3D files, and I'm assuming
>> that any file that ITK can create it can also read.
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Gib
>>
>>
>> The ITK community is transitioning from this mailing list to
>> discourse.itk.org. Please join us there!
>> ________________________________
>> Powered by www.kitware.com
>>
>> Visit other Kitware open-source projects at
>> http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html
>>
>> Kitware offers ITK Training Courses, for more information visit:
>> http://www.kitware.com/products/protraining.php
>>
>> Please keep messages on-topic and check the ITK FAQ at:
>> http://www.itk.org/Wiki/ITK_FAQ
>>
>> Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:
>> http://public.kitware.com/mailman/listinfo/insight-users
>>
>
>
> The ITK community is transitioning from this mailing list to
> discourse.itk.org. Please join us there!
> ________________________________
> Powered by www.kitware.com
>
> Visit other Kitware open-source projects at
> http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html
>
> Kitware offers ITK Training Courses, for more information visit:
> http://www.kitware.com/products/protraining.php
>
> Please keep messages on-topic and check the ITK FAQ at:
> http://www.itk.org/Wiki/ITK_FAQ
>
> Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://public.kitware.com/mailman/listinfo/insight-users
>
The ITK community is transitioning from this mailing list to discourse.itk.org. Please join us there!
________________________________
Powered by www.kitware.com

Visit other Kitware open-source projects at
http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html

Kitware offers ITK Training Courses, for more information visit:
http://www.kitware.com/products/protraining.php

Please keep messages on-topic and check the ITK FAQ at:
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Matt McCormick
2017-10-22 18:41:12 UTC
Permalink
Thanks for the follow-up, Gib.

On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Gib Bogle <***@auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
> I've managed to find the answer to one of my questions, by looking at the file header values. A TIFF file less than 2GB has these 4 header bytes:
> 49 49 2A 00
> and over 2GB (BigTIFF) has
> 49 49 2B 00
> ITK handles this automatically.
>
> I can view the big TIFFs with Fiji (ImageJ), so this is not a bad option for displaying the slices. What I like about Irfanview is that it's very light-weight. ImageJ loads the whole file into memory, which can take some time, while Irfanview loads one slice at a time.
>
> I am not keen about Slicer - it is a real heavy-weight - and Tomviz is very specialised, designed for viewing tomography data, i.e. images in a tilt series.
> ________________________________________
> From: Matt McCormick <***@kitware.com>
> Sent: Sunday, 22 October 2017 4:48 a.m.
> To: Dženan Zukić
> Cc: Gib Bogle; Insight-users
> Subject: Re: [ITK-users] Big tiff file
>
> Hi,
>
> Since ITKv4, support for "BigTiff" was added, so ITK can support TIFF
> files larger than 4GB.
>
> One possible limitation may be the filesystem -- avoid FAT32 formatted
> filesystem that will run into size limits.
>
> The file could be viewed with a number of ITK-supported viewers, e.g.
>
> - 3D-Slicer: https://www.slicer.org/
> - ITK-SNAP: http://www.itksnap.org/
> - Tomviz: http://www.tomviz.org/
>
> HTH,
> Matt
>
> On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Dženan Zukić <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Gib,
>>
>> TIFF is limited to 4GiB. Unless you must use TIFF, better switch to
>> MetaImage or NRRD.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dženan
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 12:08 AM, Gib Bogle <***@auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>
>>> I am joining a stack of 2D tiffs into a 3D tiff, and have run into a
>>> problem with big files. When the uncompressed size of the 3D file is more
>>> than 2GB I get an error when I try to view it with Irfanview. At first I
>>> thought maybe I needed to upgrade from ITK4.8.0, but after installing and
>>> using ITK4.12.2 I see that I have the same issue. Irfanview says:
>>>
>>> "Invalid or unsupported TIF file"
>>>
>>> I now suspect that the problem is not ITK-related, rather it is a
>>> limitation of Irfanview.
>>>
>>> I have two questions:
>>>
>>>
>>> Is there a limit on the allowed size of a tiff file?
>>>
>>> Is there another program (preferably free) that can open for viewing tiff
>>> files bigger than 2GB?
>>>
>>>
>>> It is useful but not essential for me to be able to view these big 3D
>>> files. I will use ITK functions to process the 3D files, and I'm assuming
>>> that any file that ITK can create it can also read.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Gib
>>>
>>>
>>> The ITK community is transitioning from this mailing list to
>>> discourse.itk.org. Please join us there!
>>> ________________________________
>>> Powered by www.kitware.com
>>>
>>> Visit other Kitware open-source projects at
>>> http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html
>>>
>>> Kitware offers ITK Training Courses, for more information visit:
>>> http://www.kitware.com/products/protraining.php
>>>
>>> Please keep messages on-topic and check the ITK FAQ at:
>>> http://www.itk.org/Wiki/ITK_FAQ
>>>
>>> Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:
>>> http://public.kitware.com/mailman/listinfo/insight-users
>>>
>>
>>
>> The ITK community is transitioning from this mailing list to
>> discourse.itk.org. Please join us there!
>> ________________________________
>> Powered by www.kitware.com
>>
>> Visit other Kitware open-source projects at
>> http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html
>>
>> Kitware offers ITK Training Courses, for more information visit:
>> http://www.kitware.com/products/protraining.php
>>
>> Please keep messages on-topic and check the ITK FAQ at:
>> http://www.itk.org/Wiki/ITK_FAQ
>>
>> Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:
>> http://public.kitware.com/mailman/listinfo/insight-users
>>
The ITK community is transitioning from this mailing list to discourse.itk.org. Please join us there!
________________________________
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Kitware offers ITK Training Courses, for more information visit:
http://www.kitware.com/products/protraining.php

Please keep messages on-topic and check the ITK FAQ at:
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Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:
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Gib Bogle
2017-10-22 18:55:16 UTC
Permalink
About ITKsnap, Richard made me aware that although it is not possible to open a TIFF from the GUI (TIFF is not in the list of supported formats shown there), it can be opened from the command line:
> itksnap zzz.tif
which is very odd.
________________________________________
From: Matt McCormick <***@kitware.com>
Sent: Monday, 23 October 2017 7:41 a.m.
To: Gib Bogle
Cc: Dženan Zukić; Insight-users
Subject: Re: [ITK-users] Big tiff file

Thanks for the follow-up, Gib.

On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Gib Bogle <***@auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
> I've managed to find the answer to one of my questions, by looking at the file header values. A TIFF file less than 2GB has these 4 header bytes:
> 49 49 2A 00
> and over 2GB (BigTIFF) has
> 49 49 2B 00
> ITK handles this automatically.
>
> I can view the big TIFFs with Fiji (ImageJ), so this is not a bad option for displaying the slices. What I like about Irfanview is that it's very light-weight. ImageJ loads the whole file into memory, which can take some time, while Irfanview loads one slice at a time.
>
> I am not keen about Slicer - it is a real heavy-weight - and Tomviz is very specialised, designed for viewing tomography data, i.e. images in a tilt series.
> ________________________________________
> From: Matt McCormick <***@kitware.com>
> Sent: Sunday, 22 October 2017 4:48 a.m.
> To: Dženan Zukić
> Cc: Gib Bogle; Insight-users
> Subject: Re: [ITK-users] Big tiff file
>
> Hi,
>
> Since ITKv4, support for "BigTiff" was added, so ITK can support TIFF
> files larger than 4GB.
>
> One possible limitation may be the filesystem -- avoid FAT32 formatted
> filesystem that will run into size limits.
>
> The file could be viewed with a number of ITK-supported viewers, e.g.
>
> - 3D-Slicer: https://www.slicer.org/
> - ITK-SNAP: http://www.itksnap.org/
> - Tomviz: http://www.tomviz.org/
>
> HTH,
> Matt
>
> On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Dženan Zukić <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi Gib,
>>
>> TIFF is limited to 4GiB. Unless you must use TIFF, better switch to
>> MetaImage or NRRD.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Dženan
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 12:08 AM, Gib Bogle <***@auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>
>>> I am joining a stack of 2D tiffs into a 3D tiff, and have run into a
>>> problem with big files. When the uncompressed size of the 3D file is more
>>> than 2GB I get an error when I try to view it with Irfanview. At first I
>>> thought maybe I needed to upgrade from ITK4.8.0, but after installing and
>>> using ITK4.12.2 I see that I have the same issue. Irfanview says:
>>>
>>> "Invalid or unsupported TIF file"
>>>
>>> I now suspect that the problem is not ITK-related, rather it is a
>>> limitation of Irfanview.
>>>
>>> I have two questions:
>>>
>>>
>>> Is there a limit on the allowed size of a tiff file?
>>>
>>> Is there another program (preferably free) that can open for viewing tiff
>>> files bigger than 2GB?
>>>
>>>
>>> It is useful but not essential for me to be able to view these big 3D
>>> files. I will use ITK functions to process the 3D files, and I'm assuming
>>> that any file that ITK can create it can also read.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Gib
>>>
>>>
>>> The ITK community is transitioning from this mailing list to
>>> discourse.itk.org. Please join us there!
>>> ________________________________
>>> Powered by www.kitware.com
>>>
>>> Visit other Kitware open-source projects at
>>> http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html
>>>
>>> Kitware offers ITK Training Courses, for more information visit:
>>> http://www.kitware.com/products/protraining.php
>>>
>>> Please keep messages on-topic and check the ITK FAQ at:
>>> http://www.itk.org/Wiki/ITK_FAQ
>>>
>>> Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:
>>> http://public.kitware.com/mailman/listinfo/insight-users
>>>
>>
>>
>> The ITK community is transitioning from this mailing list to
>> discourse.itk.org. Please join us there!
>> ________________________________
>> Powered by www.kitware.com
>>
>> Visit other Kitware open-source projects at
>> http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html
>>
>> Kitware offers ITK Training Courses, for more information visit:
>> http://www.kitware.com/products/protraining.php
>>
>> Please keep messages on-topic and check the ITK FAQ at:
>> http://www.itk.org/Wiki/ITK_FAQ
>>
>> Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:
>> http://public.kitware.com/mailman/listinfo/insight-users
>>
The ITK community is transitioning from this mailing list to discourse.itk.org. Please join us there!
________________________________
Powered by www.kitware.com

Visit other Kitware open-source projects at
http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html

Kitware offers ITK Training Courses, for more information visit:
http://www.kitware.com/products/protraining.php

Please keep messages on-topic and check the ITK FAQ at:
http://www.itk.org/Wiki/ITK_FAQ

Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:
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Dženan Zukić
2017-10-22 19:14:03 UTC
Permalink
I guess each format needs additional code in the UI, but reading the file
via ITK is almost the same for non-DICOM formats.

On Sun, Oct 22, 2017 at 2:55 PM, Gib Bogle <***@auckland.ac.nz> wrote:

> About ITKsnap, Richard made me aware that although it is not possible to
> open a TIFF from the GUI (TIFF is not in the list of supported formats
> shown there), it can be opened from the command line:
> > itksnap zzz.tif
> which is very odd.
> ________________________________________
> From: Matt McCormick <***@kitware.com>
> Sent: Monday, 23 October 2017 7:41 a.m.
> To: Gib Bogle
> Cc: DÅŸenan Zukić; Insight-users
> Subject: Re: [ITK-users] Big tiff file
>
> Thanks for the follow-up, Gib.
>
> On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 8:39 PM, Gib Bogle <***@auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
> > I've managed to find the answer to one of my questions, by looking at
> the file header values. A TIFF file less than 2GB has these 4 header bytes:
> > 49 49 2A 00
> > and over 2GB (BigTIFF) has
> > 49 49 2B 00
> > ITK handles this automatically.
> >
> > I can view the big TIFFs with Fiji (ImageJ), so this is not a bad option
> for displaying the slices. What I like about Irfanview is that it's very
> light-weight. ImageJ loads the whole file into memory, which can take some
> time, while Irfanview loads one slice at a time.
> >
> > I am not keen about Slicer - it is a real heavy-weight - and Tomviz is
> very specialised, designed for viewing tomography data, i.e. images in a
> tilt series.
> > ________________________________________
> > From: Matt McCormick <***@kitware.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, 22 October 2017 4:48 a.m.
> > To: DÅŸenan Zukić
> > Cc: Gib Bogle; Insight-users
> > Subject: Re: [ITK-users] Big tiff file
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Since ITKv4, support for "BigTiff" was added, so ITK can support TIFF
> > files larger than 4GB.
> >
> > One possible limitation may be the filesystem -- avoid FAT32 formatted
> > filesystem that will run into size limits.
> >
> > The file could be viewed with a number of ITK-supported viewers, e.g.
> >
> > - 3D-Slicer: https://www.slicer.org/
> > - ITK-SNAP: http://www.itksnap.org/
> > - Tomviz: http://www.tomviz.org/
> >
> > HTH,
> > Matt
> >
> > On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 11:40 AM, DÅŸenan Zukić <***@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> Hi Gib,
> >>
> >> TIFF is limited to 4GiB. Unless you must use TIFF, better switch to
> >> MetaImage or NRRD.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> DÅŸenan
> >>
> >> On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 12:08 AM, Gib Bogle <***@auckland.ac.nz>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I am joining a stack of 2D tiffs into a 3D tiff, and have run into a
> >>> problem with big files. When the uncompressed size of the 3D file is
> more
> >>> than 2GB I get an error when I try to view it with Irfanview. At
> first I
> >>> thought maybe I needed to upgrade from ITK4.8.0, but after installing
> and
> >>> using ITK4.12.2 I see that I have the same issue. Irfanview says:
> >>>
> >>> "Invalid or unsupported TIF file"
> >>>
> >>> I now suspect that the problem is not ITK-related, rather it is a
> >>> limitation of Irfanview.
> >>>
> >>> I have two questions:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Is there a limit on the allowed size of a tiff file?
> >>>
> >>> Is there another program (preferably free) that can open for viewing
> tiff
> >>> files bigger than 2GB?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> It is useful but not essential for me to be able to view these big 3D
> >>> files. I will use ITK functions to process the 3D files, and I'm
> assuming
> >>> that any file that ITK can create it can also read.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>>
> >>> Gib
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The ITK community is transitioning from this mailing list to
> >>> discourse.itk.org. Please join us there!
> >>> ________________________________
> >>> Powered by www.kitware.com
> >>>
> >>> Visit other Kitware open-source projects at
> >>> http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html
> >>>
> >>> Kitware offers ITK Training Courses, for more information visit:
> >>> http://www.kitware.com/products/protraining.php
> >>>
> >>> Please keep messages on-topic and check the ITK FAQ at:
> >>> http://www.itk.org/Wiki/ITK_FAQ
> >>>
> >>> Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:
> >>> http://public.kitware.com/mailman/listinfo/insight-users
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> The ITK community is transitioning from this mailing list to
> >> discourse.itk.org. Please join us there!
> >> ________________________________
> >> Powered by www.kitware.com
> >>
> >> Visit other Kitware open-source projects at
> >> http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html
> >>
> >> Kitware offers ITK Training Courses, for more information visit:
> >> http://www.kitware.com/products/protraining.php
> >>
> >> Please keep messages on-topic and check the ITK FAQ at:
> >> http://www.itk.org/Wiki/ITK_FAQ
> >>
> >> Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:
> >> http://public.kitware.com/mailman/listinfo/insight-users
> >>
>
Lowekamp, Bradley (NIH/NLM/LHC) [C]
2017-10-23 13:15:51 UTC
Permalink
Hello,

You have correctly figured this out. Technically the regular tiff format can support up to 4GB, but in ITK we made the determination to switch to the BigTiff format at 2GB [1]. This is does to ensure that we can properly do signed integer arithmetic for the file format.

I have also used ImageJ/FIJI and a program call IMOD [2] (another electron microscopy viewer) for viewing these big tiff files.

HTH,
Brad

[1] https://github.com/InsightSoftwareConsortium/ITK/blob/4456e0431b0d35f55eb1eadc5ca8a7c3fe2c8af9/Modules/IO/TIFF/src/itkTIFFImageIO.cxx#L595
[2] http://bio3d.colorado.edu/imod/

On 10/21/17, 8:40 PM, "Gib Bogle" <***@auckland.ac.nz> wrote:

I've managed to find the answer to one of my questions, by looking at the file header values. A TIFF file less than 2GB has these 4 header bytes:
49 49 2A 00
and over 2GB (BigTIFF) has
49 49 2B 00
ITK handles this automatically.

I can view the big TIFFs with Fiji (ImageJ), so this is not a bad option for displaying the slices. What I like about Irfanview is that it's very light-weight. ImageJ loads the whole file into memory, which can take some time, while Irfanview loads one slice at a time.

I am not keen about Slicer - it is a real heavy-weight - and Tomviz is very specialised, designed for viewing tomography data, i.e. images in a tilt series.
________________________________________
From: Matt McCormick <***@kitware.com>
Sent: Sunday, 22 October 2017 4:48 a.m.
To: Dženan Zukić
Cc: Gib Bogle; Insight-users
Subject: Re: [ITK-users] Big tiff file

Hi,

Since ITKv4, support for "BigTiff" was added, so ITK can support TIFF
files larger than 4GB.

One possible limitation may be the filesystem -- avoid FAT32 formatted
filesystem that will run into size limits.

The file could be viewed with a number of ITK-supported viewers, e.g.

- 3D-Slicer: https://www.slicer.org/
- ITK-SNAP: http://www.itksnap.org/
- Tomviz: http://www.tomviz.org/

HTH,
Matt

On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 11:40 AM, Dženan Zukić <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Gib,
>
> TIFF is limited to 4GiB. Unless you must use TIFF, better switch to
> MetaImage or NRRD.
>
> Regards,
> Dženan
>
> On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 12:08 AM, Gib Bogle <***@auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>> I am joining a stack of 2D tiffs into a 3D tiff, and have run into a
>> problem with big files. When the uncompressed size of the 3D file is more
>> than 2GB I get an error when I try to view it with Irfanview. At first I
>> thought maybe I needed to upgrade from ITK4.8.0, but after installing and
>> using ITK4.12.2 I see that I have the same issue. Irfanview says:
>>
>> "Invalid or unsupported TIF file"
>>
>> I now suspect that the problem is not ITK-related, rather it is a
>> limitation of Irfanview.
>>
>> I have two questions:
>>
>>
>> Is there a limit on the allowed size of a tiff file?
>>
>> Is there another program (preferably free) that can open for viewing tiff
>> files bigger than 2GB?
>>
>>
>> It is useful but not essential for me to be able to view these big 3D
>> files. I will use ITK functions to process the 3D files, and I'm assuming
>> that any file that ITK can create it can also read.
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Gib
>>
>>
>> The ITK community is transitioning from this mailing list to
>> discourse.itk.org. Please join us there!
>> ________________________________
>> Powered by www.kitware.com
>>
>> Visit other Kitware open-source projects at
>> http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html
>>
>> Kitware offers ITK Training Courses, for more information visit:
>> http://www.kitware.com/products/protraining.php
>>
>> Please keep messages on-topic and check the ITK FAQ at:
>> http://www.itk.org/Wiki/ITK_FAQ
>>
>> Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:
>> http://public.kitware.com/mailman/listinfo/insight-users
>>
>
>
> The ITK community is transitioning from this mailing list to
> discourse.itk.org. Please join us there!
> ________________________________
> Powered by www.kitware.com
>
> Visit other Kitware open-source projects at
> http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html
>
> Kitware offers ITK Training Courses, for more information visit:
> http://www.kitware.com/products/protraining.php
>
> Please keep messages on-topic and check the ITK FAQ at:
> http://www.itk.org/Wiki/ITK_FAQ
>
> Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://public.kitware.com/mailman/listinfo/insight-users
>
The ITK community is transitioning from this mailing list to discourse.itk.org. Please join us there!
________________________________
Powered by www.kitware.com

Visit other Kitware open-source projects at
http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html

Kitware offers ITK Training Courses, for more information visit:
http://www.kitware.com/products/protraining.php

Please keep messages on-topic and check the ITK FAQ at:
http://www.itk.org/Wiki/ITK_FAQ

Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:
http://public.kitware.com/mailman/listinfo/insight-users


The ITK community is transitioning from this mailing list to discourse.itk.org. Please join us there!
________________________________
Powered by www.kitware.com

Visit other Kitware open-source projects at
http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html

Kitware offers ITK Training Courses, for more information visit:
http://www.kitware.com/products/protraining.php

Please keep messages on-topic and check the ITK FAQ at:
http://www.itk.org/Wiki/ITK_FAQ

Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:
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Dženan Zukić
2017-10-23 13:30:02 UTC
Permalink
Perhaps the condition
<https://github.com/InsightSoftwareConsortium/ITK/blob/4456e0431b0d35f55eb1eadc5ca8a7c3fe2c8af9/Modules/IO/TIFF/src/itkTIFFImageIO.cxx#L595>
should be greater or equal? Because the equal case already wraps around
using signed arithmetic.

On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 9:15 AM, Lowekamp, Bradley (NIH/NLM/LHC) [C] <
***@mail.nih.gov> wrote:

> Hello,
>
> You have correctly figured this out. Technically the regular tiff format
> can support up to 4GB, but in ITK we made the determination to switch to
> the BigTiff format at 2GB [1]. This is does to ensure that we can properly
> do signed integer arithmetic for the file format.
>
> I have also used ImageJ/FIJI and a program call IMOD [2] (another electron
> microscopy viewer) for viewing these big tiff files.
>
> HTH,
> Brad
>
> [1] https://github.com/InsightSoftwareConsortium/ITK/blob/
> 4456e0431b0d35f55eb1eadc5ca8a7c3fe2c8af9/Modules/IO/TIFF/
> src/itkTIFFImageIO.cxx#L595
> [2] http://bio3d.colorado.edu/imod/
>
> On 10/21/17, 8:40 PM, "Gib Bogle" <***@auckland.ac.nz> wrote:
>
> I've managed to find the answer to one of my questions, by looking at
> the file header values. A TIFF file less than 2GB has these 4 header bytes:
> 49 49 2A 00
> and over 2GB (BigTIFF) has
> 49 49 2B 00
> ITK handles this automatically.
>
> I can view the big TIFFs with Fiji (ImageJ), so this is not a bad
> option for displaying the slices. What I like about Irfanview is that it's
> very light-weight. ImageJ loads the whole file into memory, which can take
> some time, while Irfanview loads one slice at a time.
>
> I am not keen about Slicer - it is a real heavy-weight - and Tomviz is
> very specialised, designed for viewing tomography data, i.e. images in a
> tilt series.
> ________________________________________
> From: Matt McCormick <***@kitware.com>
> Sent: Sunday, 22 October 2017 4:48 a.m.
> To: DÅŸenan Zukić
> Cc: Gib Bogle; Insight-users
> Subject: Re: [ITK-users] Big tiff file
>
> Hi,
>
> Since ITKv4, support for "BigTiff" was added, so ITK can support TIFF
> files larger than 4GB.
>
> One possible limitation may be the filesystem -- avoid FAT32 formatted
> filesystem that will run into size limits.
>
> The file could be viewed with a number of ITK-supported viewers, e.g.
>
> - 3D-Slicer: https://www.slicer.org/
> - ITK-SNAP: http://www.itksnap.org/
> - Tomviz: http://www.tomviz.org/
>
> HTH,
> Matt
>
> On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 11:40 AM, DÅŸenan Zukić <***@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi Gib,
> >
> > TIFF is limited to 4GiB. Unless you must use TIFF, better switch to
> > MetaImage or NRRD.
> >
> > Regards,
> > DÅŸenan
> >
> > On Sat, Oct 21, 2017 at 12:08 AM, Gib Bogle <***@auckland.ac.nz>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >>
> >> I am joining a stack of 2D tiffs into a 3D tiff, and have run into a
> >> problem with big files. When the uncompressed size of the 3D file
> is more
> >> than 2GB I get an error when I try to view it with Irfanview. At
> first I
> >> thought maybe I needed to upgrade from ITK4.8.0, but after
> installing and
> >> using ITK4.12.2 I see that I have the same issue. Irfanview says:
> >>
> >> "Invalid or unsupported TIF file"
> >>
> >> I now suspect that the problem is not ITK-related, rather it is a
> >> limitation of Irfanview.
> >>
> >> I have two questions:
> >>
> >>
> >> Is there a limit on the allowed size of a tiff file?
> >>
> >> Is there another program (preferably free) that can open for
> viewing tiff
> >> files bigger than 2GB?
> >>
> >>
> >> It is useful but not essential for me to be able to view these big
> 3D
> >> files. I will use ITK functions to process the 3D files, and I'm
> assuming
> >> that any file that ITK can create it can also read.
> >>
> >>
> >> Thanks
> >>
> >> Gib
> >>
> >>
> >> The ITK community is transitioning from this mailing list to
> >> discourse.itk.org. Please join us there!
> >> ________________________________
> >> Powered by www.kitware.com
> >>
> >> Visit other Kitware open-source projects at
> >> http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html
> >>
> >> Kitware offers ITK Training Courses, for more information visit:
> >> http://www.kitware.com/products/protraining.php
> >>
> >> Please keep messages on-topic and check the ITK FAQ at:
> >> http://www.itk.org/Wiki/ITK_FAQ
> >>
> >> Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:
> >> http://public.kitware.com/mailman/listinfo/insight-users
> >>
> >
> >
> > The ITK community is transitioning from this mailing list to
> > discourse.itk.org. Please join us there!
> > ________________________________
> > Powered by www.kitware.com
> >
> > Visit other Kitware open-source projects at
> > http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html
> >
> > Kitware offers ITK Training Courses, for more information visit:
> > http://www.kitware.com/products/protraining.php
> >
> > Please keep messages on-topic and check the ITK FAQ at:
> > http://www.itk.org/Wiki/ITK_FAQ
> >
> > Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:
> > http://public.kitware.com/mailman/listinfo/insight-users
> >
> The ITK community is transitioning from this mailing list to
> discourse.itk.org. Please join us there!
> ________________________________
> Powered by www.kitware.com
>
> Visit other Kitware open-source projects at
> http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html
>
> Kitware offers ITK Training Courses, for more information visit:
> http://www.kitware.com/products/protraining.php
>
> Please keep messages on-topic and check the ITK FAQ at:
> http://www.itk.org/Wiki/ITK_FAQ
>
> Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:
> http://public.kitware.com/mailman/listinfo/insight-users
>
>
>
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